estimates that it was one, 1.5 points is what she cost john mccain for being on the ticket. which is huge. think back to dan quayle. i've never seen a more dramatic contrast between the competence of the two vice presidential candidates, lloyd benson, this old testament authority and dan quayle and benson delivered that devastating line. michael dukakis lost the election but the race tightened towards the end. there was a lot of considerat n consideration -- >> let me ask one last question here on this particular issue. is this going to be more fun for joe biden than 2008 was because sarah palin was someone that he had to pull punches against both because she was a woman, but also because it would not have looked good to beat up on her? is this more fun for him? >> i think he was dancing a delicate dance in 2008. you'll see he's up the p 90x 9% body fat guy. he can go as hard as he wants to. after the debate last week, he has to. >> chloe, i want to take up the issue you brought up is whether or not they are looking ahead, whether or not what they're actually doing is runnin